Final Thoughts on Methanol
Join the forum discussion on this post
The previous essay on methanol versus ethanol resulted in a number of interesting comments. It was one of the best discussions we have had around here in a long time. Many issues were raised in the resulting discussions that warrant some clarification. So I thought I would make some final comments regarding some of the issues that were raised.
Conflicts of Interest
In a story at BiofuelsDigest – Methanol: Biofuel to love or hate? – it was suggested that I might have a conflict of interest here in my defense of methanol. That is certainly a legitimate question to ask, and I don’t mind answering it. The fact is that I have zero financial interests in methanol. My company has zero financial interests in methanol. We are not producing methanol, have never produced methanol, and we currently have no plans to produce methanol. So it would be a bit hard to have a conflict of interest when I have no interests.
On the other hand, many of the methanol bashers do have conflicts. They are invested in ethanol, and have an interest in seeing ethanol continue to operate as essentially a monopoly. The reason I decided to write the essay in the first place was because there are a fair number of hypocrites who have defended ethanol against charges of corrosivity and lower energy content relative to gasoline – and then turned around and cited those as criticisms against methanol.
My Motivation
What I am trying to do here is quite simple. I am trying to open up the debate to consider merits of some energy options beyond the mandated ethanol monopoly that was forced upon us. My personal belief is that corn ethanol carries great risks because it is tied to the food supply and is dependent on cheap fossil fuels. I don’t believe we will always have the luxury of using some of our most fertile soil to inefficiently produce fuel. I think in a future in which petroleum supplies are declining, we will put a premium on being able to efficiently turn biomass into liquid fuel. Ethanol produced via biological pathways will not win that race. Ethanol is presently very good at turning fossil fuels via mandates and subsidies into liquid fuel. We have been doing it for 30 years. And yet we still see the ethanol lobby stating that they need the subsidies to survive.
So my primary interest here is in seeing the world develop fuels that can actually step in as petroleum replacements as petroleum supplies decline. A major factor that will drive the success of these replacements will be low reliance on fossil fuels (as petroleum declines, natural gas prices will surely climb as well). That fuel could be ethanol. Contrary to popular opinion I have zero bias against ethanol as a a fuel. My bias is against developing faux solutions to declining petroleum supplies and only realizing our error as petroleum shortages are upon us.
Toxicity
Critics of methanol love to throw out the “toxicity” criticism as if this alone should end all debate. Critics were running out of adjectives trying to describe just how toxic methanol is. It is a wonder that I am alive considering how often I have washed my windows with it.
There are many, many problems with toxicity argument. Ethanol is made toxic before it leaves the ethanol distillery so people won’t drink it. Shouldn’t we therefore be alarmed that this toxic substance is in our fuel supply? Of course gasoline itself is highly toxic as well, so methanol is being charged with a crime that the other fuels are guilty of as well. The fact is, our motor fuels are toxic – and flammable. Therefore they are dangerous and we have to use them with an appropriate degree of caution.
It even went so far as someone suggesting methanol could be used as a terrorist weapon. I hate to break the news to people, but the windshield washer fluid that you can buy for a buck or two at the store contains large amounts of methanol. You can also buy fuel additives like HEET that are almost pure methanol. Perhaps Homeland Security should be advised that consumers are getting their hands on this stuff.
Of course consumers are allowed to buy all kinds of toxic substances like bleach, Drano, and antifreeze (poisonous and sweet-tasting!). The thing is, we don’t drink them. We handle them with caution, and we keep them out of reach of children. So which is more dangerous: Methanol in your fuel tank or the bottle of Drano under your sink?
Corrosion
It is true that methanol is slightly more corrosive than ethanol, but then ethanol is much more corrosive than gasoline. Ethanol proponents have long told us that this is no big deal; that for under $100 cars can be made compatible with ethanol’s higher corrosivity. But suddenly, these same people throw up methanol’s corrosivity as a show-stopper. They tell us horror stories about cars dissolving under methanol’s horrible powers.
I am a big believer in validating theories, so instead of theorizing about how methanol will destroy all of our cars, perhaps it would be instructive to examine methanol’s performance in the real world. The facts are that 1). A number of methanol cars are already in service; 2). Millions of people already put methanol in their cars via gasoline additives. 3). Billions of gallons of methanol are already in the fuel supply in other countries. You would think someone might have noticed their dissolving automobile fleets if the problems were as dire as critics warn. But actually Ford solved this problem back in the 80’s and 90’s, offering flex-fuel cars that could operate on blends of methanol or ethanol (see the many references to this in the Flex-Fuel Wiki).
Energy Density
As I pointed out previously, this is another issue that brought out a lot of hypocrisy from ethanol fans. Ethanol has a lower energy density than gasoline. Ethanol fans have defended against that charge forever, trying to minimize it as a legitimate issue. Yet suddenly they raise it as an issue when the talk turns to methanol. But actually, it is again like the corrosion issue. There is a bigger difference between gasoline and ethanol than there is between ethanol and methanol. So you have to wonder how the same person can defend ethanol’s lower energy density and turn around and criticize methanol’s lower energy density.
Energy density is something I don’t get too worked up about. Ideally, we would all like to fill up very infrequently. With ethanol or methanol we are going to fill up more often. But ultimately, the convenience of driving far outweighs the inconvenience of filling up twice as often as you do now.
Devil’s Advocacy
Finally, I think a lot of people confuse my devil’s advocacy of some issues with real advocacy. When I suggest that we have a methanol mandate to match our ethanol mandate (real or de facto), then I am playing devil’s advocate. In fact, I don’t favor a methanol mandate. I did not favor an ethanol mandate. Mandates distort markets in unpredictable ways. I think the problem with mandates is that it becomes very hard to measure the true cost. And if you don’t know the true cost, you don’t really know if you can afford it in the long term.
At least with subsidies we know how much we are spending, and we can measure the market penetration relative to the subsidy outlay. We mandates, the cost is harder to pin down. Maybe the refiner takes a little hit, and then he passes some of that on to the consumer. But what the refiner is not doing is evaluating the economics of the mandated fuel relative to competitors – because the refiner is legally obligated to use it regardless of how much the fuel costs.
Conclusion
I don’t believe there is any single source of energy that is going to replace petroleum. It is going to take a combination of many different energy sources, and I believe those with the highest conversion efficiencies will ultimately win out. This is exactly why I favor thermochemical conversion processes over biochemical conversion processes; the former has significantly better prospects for higher conversion efficiencies. The product of the process can be methanol, ethanol, butanol, di-methyl-ether, gasoline or diesel. We can live with any or all of those fuels. But we can’t live with them if the conversion efficiency is low – unless we are willing to perpetually subsidize them to compensate for the low conversion efficiency. I simply don’t think this will be an option as fossil fuel supplies deplete, and that essentially defines where I am coming from.
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The fact is, drinking either methanol or gasoline, or any fuel, is hazardous to your health! That is just something we have accepted long ago, as part of using these wonderful liquid fuels.
if someone really wants to drink toxic stuff, there are many choices. We should not preclude a potentially very useful, and renewable, fuel, just because there is the possibility some people will find a way to poison themselves with it.
Far more people die of ethanol poisoning each year, but we actually sell that stuff for drinking!
Mercy and Paul,
RE: Relative toxicity of methanol and gasoline
Try the American Association of Poison Control Centers, for example.
Table22A of their Annual Report lists data for hundreds of substances, including outcomes. From that table:
Gasoline: 16,103 exposures reported, 0 deaths
Methanol: 619 exposures reported, 7 deaths
Available at: http://www.aapcc.org/dnn/Porta…..report.pdf
Methanol Fires vs: Gasoline or Diesel Fires:
The EPA data four posts back was quite interesting and it illustrates some excellent points. The two lowest alcohols, C1 MeOH and C2 EtOH feature 107 & 108 neat octane ratings. These lower alcohols also exhibit only 1 to 2 points of RVP or Reid Vapor Pressure. In comparison, summer gasoline features 8 RVP and winter gasoline is raised (with butane bubbled through gasoline) to boost the RVP to about 12. This higher aromatic content (defined as RVP) assists with cold starts. Then after cold engines start — this higher aromatic RVP of winter gasoline just simply pollutes far more.
Cold starts are amplified with engines still using carburetors. Direct fuel injection for the past 25 years really obviates most winter cold-start problems. Yet gasoline sold from a commercial pump has to perform wonderfully in new cars, older cars, a 1908 Model T Ford, or in snowmobiles, jet skis, motorboats and also in 2-stroke chain saws, weedeaters, motorcycles, etc. Thus increased RVP in winter gasoline is really not necessary for most of the freeway traffic combusting it for 5 months of the year.
Methanol would have been a logical replacement for gasoline about 1908 when Henry Ford introduced his first assembly-line to produce Model T automobiles. However, twice the methanol volume is necessary in comparison to gasoline as MeOH features about 56,000 BTUs per gallon and most gasoline today provides approximately 112,000 BTUs. When appropriate air/fuel ratios are dialed in via carbs OR fuel injectors, then ignition spark advance can really be ratcheted upwards because of these higher octane levels featured by the oxygenated alcohols. Simply dialing in the proper air/fuel ratio and then finding the ’sweet spot’ of advanced spark ignition is what provides more “Indy 500 Race Car-type torque power” from lower alcohols when they are properly tuned.
This is what the FFV (flex fuel vehicle) $35 factory-installed computer chip actually does. This FFV chip dials in the proper air/fuel ratio and then pushes the spark advance upwards until sensors determine a pre-ignition ‘ping’ and then just slightly lowers this very high spark advance so that a ping does not occur. Setting the spark advance as high as possible without predetonation (ping) occuring is where the most engine torque power is achieved and typically also provides the lowest emissions profile as well. The cleaner emissions profile results because nearly all of the fuel alcohol is totally combusting.
Basically, the FFV chip is calibrated relative to ‘Oxygen Content’ in the alcohols whether the alcohol is at low dilution in gasoline or at high dilution ratios such as M85 or E85 mixtures. Herein lies just one basic, yet easily solvable problem. Methanol (industrially produced for 25¢ per gallon) features 50% oxygen content. CH3OH MeOH pairs up one large Oxygen atom to one central Carbon atom and the four Hydrogen ions in this molecule are really just along for the ride. The hydrogen ions do combust but four hydrogen ions provide far less BTU content than contained in the single Carbon atom in the methanol molecule. All the hydrogen ions contained in ‘hydrocarbon’ oils or coals are really just balancing the magnetic valence of the respective molecules. These hydrogens compliment the combustion cycle less and less as the carbon chains in these oil molecules become longer and/or more complex.
EtOH ethanol features about 33% Oxygen content. The Ethanol molecule (produced via batch fermentation for about $1.50 per gallon) is identified as C2H5OH. C2 Ethanol is different from C1 Methanol primarily because it features one more Carbon atom and two more associated hydrogen ions. The FFV’s first sensor detects the dissolved oxygen content in gasoline/alcohol blends. Thus E85 chips are calibrated to 33% oxygen content contained within anhydrous ethanol. If Methanol were substituted for Ethanol – then a E-85 FFV chip’s calibration would be off somewhat and the engine’s air/fuel ratio would be on the lean-side. That is unless there was an easy mechanical switch inside the glove box for the driver to flip to C1 MeOH or C2 EtOH or perhaps to a third setting for C4 higher mixed alcohols which average a carbon molar content similar to butanol – yet do not react nor combust like neat, batch fermented C4 n-butanol actually does.
These simple, linear-chained lower alcohols are water soluble. This is the simple secret to their biodegradability aspects in comparison to the crude oil now floating on the waters of the Gulf of Mexico.
Try combusting a metal spoonful of C1 methanol to observe how clean it’s flames are in comparison to a spoonful of ignited gasoline or diesel. If you don’t have methanol handy, stop at the nearest liquor store and buy a pocket flask of Everclear. This is C2 ethanol dried to 95% of anhydrous or 190 proof. This is the strongest beverage alcohol which college kids typically pour into cool aid or fruit juices. Therein you can observe nearly invisible flame colors of lower alcohols in comparison to the yellowish flames with black sooty smoke from refined hydrocarbon oils which this planet’s populace has been combusting for the past century.
Then put some tap water into spray bottle and observe just how little volume of water spray it takes to dilute the burning spoonful of a lower alcohol beyond it’s point of combustion.
Going a bit further now, please realize that a semi-tanker spill of such fuel-grade alcohol along the freeways
1) is harder to ignite than is gasoline – simply because the alcohol only has 1/4 the aromatic vapor pressure of gasoline and
2) IF a tanker spill of alcohol does ignite (and it surely can) then firemen would only have to spray a mist of water over these cooler combusting alcohol flames in order to extinguish them.
Once quenched, flush the spilled, diluted alcohol into the barrow ditch with another fire-tanker or two of water and simply feed the plants and bugs living there with a free lunch. This is the basic ’safety mechanism’ inherent with all fuel-grade alcohols. Alcohols don’t ignite as quickly with a static spark as they naturally feature a less aromatic RVP vapor pressure. Alcohol flames are cooler, not hotter, — and easy dilution with water will extinguish them.
As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the human liver or that of reptiles [and birds] can’t process a C1 methanol molecule but the same liver can process a C2 ethanol molecule. That is why beverage ethanol is the antidote for methanol poisoning after a finger is first shoved down a person’s throat to initiate the gagging reflex and expel what MeOH might remain in the stomach. Either alcohol when diluted in water WILL provide a basic and natural food source for aquatic organisms, bacteria, phytoplankton and EVERY green plant or tree. This is the biodegradability factor missing with hydrocarbon oil or coal.
Going back in history to 1908 with the advent of Henry Ford’s new Model T horseless carriage – the principle hydrocarbon being marketed then by J.D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Company was kerosene (jet fuel C10-C15) used as an illuminant in wick lamps. The lighter fraction (gasoline C5-C10) of crude oil refining didn’t have any major market until a four-cylinder, 4-stroke engine showed up in FoMoCo’s new automobile assembly line.
It is true that the first Model T’s were dual-fuelers, 70 years ahead of the first FFV dual-fueler engine adjustment via modern computer chips. Henry had a thumb-screw attached to the end of the mechanical spark advance lever which opened and closed a single carburetor jet much like a camera iris. The ignition spark was retarded for gasoline and in reverse, the spark was highly advanced for wet or dried ethanol. This carburetor’s fuel jet was opened to allow more alcohol (with less BTU’s) into the combustion chamber. The carb jet was made smaller via the thumbscrew to allow less gasoline into the engine as this light hydrocarbon mixture provided about 33% more BTU content than did the fermented C2 ethanol.
J.D. Rockefeller also controlled the two major railroads operating in the USA at that time and instructed Mr. Ford to remove his first dual-fuel updraft carburetor – OR – lose Standard Oil’s rail transport which brought FoMoCo it’s raw materials including iron ore to be smelted into steel. The original dual-fueled carb was only installed on Model T’s between September 8th and late December of 1908. The blueprints on file at FoMoCo for the Model T’s carburetor begin with a downdraft carb version (allowing for gasoline use only) beginning in January of 1909.
Personally, I have been there in the bowels of the Ford Museum in Dearborn and have pursued such Archive Research. The reason why wet farm ethanol produced “from sumac gathered along the roadside” didn’t begin cleanly powering the new Model T horseless carriage was because of pressure from a famous Oil Monopolist and this pressure continues 102 years later. This same major Oilman carried enough swing to stop Fischer-Tropsch coal-to-liquids (German-based synthetic fuels production) here in the USA post WW II in 1950, 51′ and 52′. It all revolves around controlling market share here folks – the same reason why oilmen manufactured MTBE for 25 years – so they didn’t lose market share to agri-ethanol when mandated under the Clean Air Act to oxygenate urban gasoline to help relieve smog.
The United States has been involved in two World Wars both instigated by Germany because the Germans didn’t have enough Oil to fuel their own Industrial Revolution. I believe that the U.S. occupies Iraq today specifically to conquer and exploit the 3rd largest oilfield on this planet. And I’m surely not alone in this belief.
Today’s ecological disaster spewing into the Gulf of Mexico is only the latest stage in the development and exploitation of planetary crude oil resources. Citizens seem to miss the fact that ALL Oils float on water, even edible plant oils and animal fats. The one Oxygen atom contained within all alcohol molecules via the OH group is what imparts magnetic polarity to the alcohol molecule. And apart from hydrocarbon oils and coal – the simple alcohol molecule is:
1) water soluble – thus biodegradable;
2) alcohols are oil soluble and seamlessly blend with refined petroleum products making them premium fuels;
3) thirdly alcohols are also coal soluble. They can impart clean-coal combustion cycles very similar to alcohol/gasoline/diesel blends…
Please think about the implications herein!
This isn’t rocket science. This is third grade chemistry which can immediately affect this polluted and ailing planet and rebuild global economies smashed by recession following international banker’s greed.
Now who might choose to participate today in NEW equity ownership of the next generation of bio-alcohol fuels be they
a) GTL 24×7 synthesized Methanol,
b) batch fermented corn or sugar cane Ethanol or
c) a new blend of synthetically-produced C1-C10 Higher Mixed Alcohols originating from garbage, sludge, ground tires, coal, methane, CO2 and biomass focused principally with beetle-killed pine?
Mark Radosevich
mark at carbonbridge dot net
Mark,
Fascinating stuff – who knew about Rockefeller squeezing Ford?
One question, can you elaborate on what you mean by “coal soluble”?
here’s a good piece on methanol in diesel engines, from Caterpillar in 1990 (http://www.sae.org/technical/p…..ers/902160)
300,000 miles is a pretty good test run! As expected, some modifications needed to the fuel handling parts of the engine, but fuel economy as good as diesel! And that was 20 yrs ago, I’m sure those problems could be easily solved today, if they haven;t been already.
Paul N asked: One question, can you elaborate on what you mean by “coal soluble”?
•••••••••••••••••••••••
Paul N., (Sure, I’ll elaborate a bit!)
Ground coal, just like crude oil or any refined petroleum oil product isn’t miscible with water. Water is repelled by all hydrocarbons be they solids, liquids or gases.
Now, add that missing Oxygen atom typically derived from boiling H2O into steam and catalytically splitting hot water/steam into H2 and O gasses. Then to complete the first phase of GTL synthesis, combine this missing Oxygen atom into mid-stream CO & H2 syngas. Then catalytically rearrange the three atoms contained within syngas and you have produced an Oxycarbon liquid instead of Fischer-Tropsch hydrocarbon oils such as syn-diesel, syn-jet kerosene or syn-gasoline. This is how C1 methanol is produced AND how C1-C10 higher mixed alcohols (including the C2 ethanol in the mixture) are also produced using a different catalyst.
Note that ‘Oxycarbon’ is a chemist’s defination for fuel-grade alcohol in which every molecule features an OH group which is missing in oils, coal or fossil gasses such as methane, ethane, propane, butane, etc.
This OH group imparts a magnetic polarity to alcohols which is not found in hydrocarbon oils, coal or fossil gasses. Thus the ‘now-magnetic alcohols’ become water soluble AND biodegradable PLUS they ALSO will now BLEND seamlessly with refined petroleum oil products and ground coal.
Most of us are very familiar with the fact that C2 ethanol and gasoline blend quite well. Other alcohols also mix with gasoline such as C1 methanol, C3 n-propanol, C4 n-butanol, C5 n-pentanol, C6 n-hexanol and onwards up the chain of higher alcohols.
All of these alcohols are magnetically attracted to water AND to all flavors of oils AND to ground coal.
You can pour any fossil oil or plant oil or animal-derived fatty oil into water and watch it phase separate just like what is now happening in the Gulf ocean. Grind up some coal (even a charchoal briquette) into talcum powder consistency (go ahead and use the wife’s coffee grinder, it works wonderfully for this purpose) and attempt to mix finely ground coal with water. Just like oil, hydrocarbon coal doesn’t mix at all with water, it too will phase separate.
Spend $5 on that pocket flask of C2 Everclear 190 proof beverage ethanol from the liquor store and do a few visual experiments which I suggested in my last post. Ignite a (metal) spoonful of alcohol, review the clean, nearly colorless and cooler flames and dunk a burning spoonful of alcohol into a glass of water to safely and easily extinguish it. Seeing with your own eyes is proof of the pudding here be you an engineer, chemist, housewife, Joe the Plumber or cab driver.
Then after attempting to mix finely ground coal with water, next try mixing some ground coal with C1 methanol, C2 ethanol (Everclear) even C3 iso-propanol rubbing alcohol which you can purchase at the drug store for 80¢. You will witness that the ground coal immediately mixes with any alcohol and will form a uniform slurry which I’ve described as “black ketchup.” The consistency of this slurry can be adjusted by withholding or adding more alcohol liquid.
You might even notice that this coal/alcohol slurry will then pump and pipeline through even plastic PVC pipes in a ‘plug flow’ configuration. This means that there is very little resistance imparted by the ground coal to the walls of the pipeline. In fact, the coal particles never even touch the sides of a pipeline and wear it out. Instead, this coal/alcohol slurry slides through a pipeline on a layer of alcohol molecules rather effortlessly and vast quantities of coal/alcohol slurry may be transported via pipeline instead of by rail as we typically witness.
I could go into a deeper college lecture herein regarding the properties of ‘plug-flow’ configurations and what can be mechanically accomplished herein regarding efficiencies uphill or downhill pipeline relative transport costs, but I won’t at this juncture. We simply are discussing some “other possibilities” here for that nasty, toxic Methanol which the naysayers are so worried about. [Hey laymen and disinformation specialists: C1 Methanol is nothing more than an Oxygen atom derived from H2O water and catalytically screwed to a simple gaseous CH4 methane molecule. Methane gas then falls out as the world's simplest LIQUID alcohol tradenamed Methanol.]
Pretty simple GTL chemistry here and it has been commercial since 1923. In fact, methanol is the largest-volume chemical (don’t think of calling it a fuel) produced and sold on this planet. Still methanol isn’t a fraction of the volume of crude oil being fought over, drilled and developed, shipped, pipelined, refined and marketed.
Fuel alcohol(s) are magnetically attracted to the ground coal particles as I’ve mentioned. In fact, the alcohol will permeate the micro-cellular pores in the ground coal and mechanically push out Nitrogen atoms which cling in these extremely small spaces of pressurized carbon atoms. The liquid alcohol is more magnetic to the coal than is nitrogen gas. Pure nitrogen being expelled to the air is absolutely no problem as ambient air is approximately 72% pure nitrogen.
By applying a specific resonant frequency the alcohol-laden coal will purge its sulfur contents – both inorganic sulfurs and stubborn, clingy organic sulfurs can be expelled prior to coal’s combustion. These sulfurs pop out of the coal clinging onto a Carbon atom and become a Carbonyl Sulfur. This purged mixture of Carbonyl Sulfurs can be either cleaned and profitably re-sold or safely landfilled.
The main function of alcohols magnetically clinging to coal particles first is to provide a less expensive means of transportation. Next is an effortless purge of nitrogen and a nearly effortless purge of sulfurs which both are typically emitted as NOx or SOx compounds within traditional coal-fired combustion emissions. The alcohol will also magnetically attract the normal H2O moisture content contained within coal, thus becoming a very effective and simple drying agent. And last, the alcohol volume in this slurry is finally spun down to only 2% moisture content by an industrial-sized centrifuge before the ground coal is combusted after being blown into coal-fired boilers with high air pressure.
To Summarize: The alcohol first beneficiates and cleans ground coal of tramp materials plus nitrogen and sulfurs while simultaneously drying it of moisture. The trace of residual alcohol remaining on the powdered coal then works to become the gunpowder over the dynamite keg so-to-speak. A trace of alcohol remaining on the now-cleaned and moisture dried coal will initiate a combustion event cycle not previously experienced by coal burners.
Expect nearly a doubling of temps in the industrial boilers while combusting maybe 30% less coal volumes. A much more complete combustion event takes place (similar to adding alcohols to gasoline, diesel or even kerosene jet fuel) and the resulting emissions profile may be 50% cleaner than before.
This is really the KISS principle at work here – and it isn’t rocket science, it is more of the 3rd grade chemistry involving Oxygen (which otherwise is absent in hydrocarbon oils, coal – even methane natural gas) producing a near-term, highly profitable, quick-fix pollution solution. I might well be describing a still elusive planetary “Clean Coal” solution here.
Do the simple experiment which I’ve suggested and physically combine some finely ground coal with any alcohol to see with your own eyes what happens. Touch a match to this alcohol/coal slurry mixture and see what happens in comparison to attempting to ignite a spoonful of coal/water mixture.
Engineering VP Paul — I do appreciate your curiosity and hope this explanation provides you and others with some additional insight to Methanol and OTHER higher alcohols.
Mark Radosevich
CarbonBridge said:
Mark, is there a way to modify the chip to handle this feature? Or a way to install the switch manually through a local auto service center? Would it be possible to modify it to run E85 (E100) or M85 (M100) on all cars, or only FFV?
CarbonBridge said:
This is interesting and makes sense to me now. I read it this morning, and during the past 5 years developing a methanol technology could not for the life of me understand why I get such resistance from oil companies. Combine that with the ethanol lobby, the US patent office (who have their own examiners who thrive on ignoring your arguments) and US government grant legislation and it is an uphill struggle against heavy currents. We have had our third super major turn down our technology in the past 60 days, and I can guarantee it is not due to economics, technology merit or ability to reduce carbon emissions and gas flaring…it is mostly due to the unknown. Well, maybe now it makes more sense why there are literally a handful of global methanol companies, and China (outsiders of course) has probably 50 methanol producers.
Thanks for opening my eyes…it is time to shift away from the super majors…and wake up! Excellent post Mark.
CarbonBridge said:
The same principle applies to sulfur in natural gas, or high sulfur gas. Our methanol solvent removes the CO2, H2S, Sulfur and other impurities that are required. The cost is practically nothing since we make methanol in our process…so we don’t have to ship in methanol as in traditional Recitsol processes used in gasification from coal processes. http://www.gasification.org/Do….._Paper.pdf
Methanol is a brilliant chemical and solvent…a basic building block that green plants love to consume and grow…as a sugar. Now that is SWEET!
“Americans have felt this powerful combination punch before: As the
U.S. dollar falls, it will greatly accelerate the increase in crude oil
prices. We should see $100/bbl shortly, and $4 gasoline is certainly
not out of the question.
This will increase cost of goods to most every retailer, be they
purveyors of Legos from Denmark or Eggos from Atlanta. In turn, sellers
will face the inevitable and unenviable choice of either raising
prices to consumers who just paid $4/gallon to drive to the store, or
eating that cost increase, and destroying their bottom line.”
http://www.consumerenergyrepor…..e-village/
If this happens, perhaps methanol at $1.00 per gallon will get a second look as a long-term fuel rather than a chemical in America? M85 could be a solution to compete with $4.00 gasoline prices.
Energy Content
Energy Content
Energy Content
Content Ratio
Quote 3. Hydrogen flames are even harder to see than MeOH flames. Because interest in hydrogen fuel cell vehicles has been so high in the 2000s, lots of R&D (mostly government $) has been directed at hydrogen safety safety issues. Zealots dismiss many hydrogen safety issues by playing the buoyancy card, but this doesn’t apply to fire detection. I find it interesting that quite serious guidance documents recommend keeping a straw broom on hand and extending it into anything you think might be a hydrogen flame to see if it catches fire.
İn 30 years of designing, constructing and operating iron ore direct reduction plants where large volumes of natural gas most of which is reformed to H2 + CO we never once used a straw broom to look for a buning leak. The process gas stream composition was 55 to 65% H2 with the balance being CO. The last complex İ managed fed in excess of 200,000 standard cubic meters of natural gas per hour to the process. Recirculated process gas flows were in excess of 1,000,000 NCMH. That is the total of flows for a combination of 5 units at one site.
Reduction of the iron ore in the furnaces is enhanced at higher temperatures than that exiting the reformers so a system to inject gaseous oxygen into the hot reducing gas stream was devised. When the cost of naphtha was low we would inject liquid naphtha into the hot gas stream and/or into the furnace where it would reform/crack on the hot iron.
Purging to insure an inert atmosphere before starting reducing is all critical as is keeping the system pressurized when reducing gases are present but that is it. H2 escapes it either burns immediately or goes up and away. Your people have to be taught gas safety and to learn they WİLL adhere to the rules. One critical point with H2 is that if it escapes into a closed area it can concentrate at the highest point and any spark or static can cause it to ignite – that can get exciting.
The iron ore plants as well as hydrogen plants in refineries have been operating for many years (40+ for the iron ore side) and have a very good safety record. Steam reformers have been around since ?? did they come on the ark?
İt gets a bit more tricky when the public gets involved as some fool can mess up most anything. Having said that, İ believe that H2 can be handled safely.
Paul,
I agree that ICEs will have its place in our transportation system for some time to come. Mass transit is the most efficient means to move people around in a perfect world. EVs will eventually commoditize cars the way personal computers have been. With minimum technical skills someone can put a pc together, however the pc market is still dominated by big, albeit, diversified companies. CNG is the way to go for large trucks if we want greater energy independence. They tend to have hubs that lend themselves to centralized fuel distribution. We have lots of NG in this country and there are large well established industries in place to drill, refine and distribute it. Ethanol/Methanol has to be “grown”, distilled, and distributed by major industries yet to be fully formed (maybe ten years away). Mid-sized cars and trucks will stay ICE until batteries are economic (maybe ten years away). Why bother? Just drink the alcohol!
I found your article to be misleading and inaccurate commentary. A 1500 lb.,1.5 hp machine made from wood with a top speed of 30 mph has not qualified as a “car” for a long time and should not be compared to a modern EV.
See pg. 261 of Without the Hot Air for a more scientific analysis of the electric car’s potential with current Li-ion battery technology. Download the pdf for free at http://www.withouthotair.com.
He looks at a 2700 lb. Lithium-Ion powered car with an energy density of 120 W*h/kg (Nissan Leaf is 140 W*h/kg) and regenerative braking. In “city” driving conditions with an avg. speed of 30 mph (the top speed of those electric carriages). He calculates a range in excess of 300 miles. So in fact, “real progress” has been made over the last 100 years.
When a major car company can deliver a 100 mile range in realistic city driving conditions with a 2700 lb curb weight (Honda Civic) they’ve got a game changer. The bottle neck is the cost of the battery. ($18,000 for Leaf’s ~60-75 mi range, 660lb battery). This is expected to drop in mass production.
I think you have overlooked the fact that the mindset of consumers has changed when it comes to car purchases. Ask the big three how sells of SUVs (“arger cars that can do everything) are going. People have switched to smaller more, fuel efficient cars as gas prices have risen and they’re income has stayed flat or gone down.
If we look at the available technologies in terms of top to bottom efficiency, electrifying the vehicle fleet is the way to go. Electric motors are far more efficient than ICEs and have better performance (think instant max rpm). A Honda civic uses the equivalent of 27kw*h per 100 miles compared with 9.3kw*h per 100 miles for EVs (pg.122-127). How much corn do you have to grow to go 100 miles? Additionally, one 20% efficient coal power plant can “fuel” thousands of EVs while every ICE has a “power plant” that’s about 20% efficient. The energy saved here is even larger than at the EV vs ICE level. We can have cleaner air and use less energy even if every EV was powered with coal.
EVs are going to be a lifestyle symbol of all those who want to appear “green” while they drink their frappamochachinos. This is the same crowd that popularized cell phones, laptops, and ipods. A car without a tailpipe will appeal to early adopters in a way that alcohols can’t compete with. That’s why the major car companies are going in this direction. So at the end of the day we need cheaper batteries, a smarter energy grid, and alot more power plants. Hedge your bets Paul.
Walt asked:
Yes Walt, a FFV chip can and will need to be calibrated to properly adjust air/fuel ratios for different BTU strengths of alcohols. For example:
Methanol at 56,500 BTU’s per gallon features an oxygen content of 50% as I’ve previously indicated. Thus a M-85 Blend would provide 85% MeOH volumes featureing 48,025 BTU’s plus 15% gasoline volume x 112,000 BTU’s = 16,800 BTU’s. Therein the approximate BTU’s contained in one gallon of M-85 would be 48,025 + 16,800 BTU’s for a total of about 64,825 BTU’s per gallon. This is only 58% of the total BTU’s contained in a typical gallon of street gasoline. Thus the FFV chip’s calibration has to add approximately 42% more fuel volume via the fuel injectors and then the spark ignition gets automatically ratcheted up very high to take advantage of this blend of methanol/gasoline fuel which might provide 102 octane. The automatic adjustments of the FFV chip would then provide the motorist with race-car torque engine power, a very clean exhaust emission and maybe this blend would provide 75% of the normal mpg driving range which gasoline alone would deliver.
Of course, the FFV chip sensing oxygen concentration would automatically adjust air/fuel volumes and spark advance or retard the spark as soon as a M-85 blend was diluted down with further volumes of richer BTU gasoline to even become a neat gasoline blend. FFV chips originally were manufactured in the 80’s and were calibrated for 50% oxygen levels in Methanol featuring about 56,500 BTU’s per gallon. After only a handful of years, these original M-85 FFV equipped autos were discontinued by Detroit automakers and soon a replacement E-85 FFV chip appeared.
These recent discussion threads on RR’s blog have covered some of the history, arguments and government politics between the GTL Methanol (chemical) Industry and the Fermentation Corn Ethanol (fuel) Industry.
Now let’s run the same basic calc’s as above regarding two-carbon Ethanol which features 75,500 BTU’s gallon and provides a 33% dissolved oxygen content. Thus a E-85 blend would provide 85% volumes of Ethanol x 75,500 BTU’s or 64,175 BTU’s. Then 15% volumes of 112,000 BTU gasoline provide another 16,800 BTU’s to total 80,975 BTU’s per gallon of an E-85 fuel mixture. This ethanol/gasoline mixture contains approximately 72% of the carbon energy density of gasoline. Thus, about 28% more total fuel volume needs to added via the fuel injectors in comparison to 42% more fuel volumes necessary when combusting M-85 blends. And these calcs all originate from the fact that the same auto is combusting only PURE gasoline as a baseline fuel. OK? Please understand that Methanol and Ethanol are only about one octane point different (107 and 108) even though M is a single-carbon alcohol and E is a two-carbon alcohol. Once again, spark ignition is highly advanced and a E-85 fuel blend ALSO provides more engine torque power than gasoline when properly adjusted. I’d guess that E-85 would provide approximately 85% the mileage range of neat gasoline, about 10% more miles per gallon when compared to a M-85 blended mixture.
A third scenario would be to re-calibrate a FFV chip for a blend of C1-C8 or C1-C10 higher mixed alcohols to include methanol, ethanol, propanol, butanol, pentanol, hexanol, heptanol, octanol, nananol and 10-carbon decanol. All of these alcohols are normal, single-chained alcohols – no branched iso-molecules here. This EPA registered blend of higher mixed alcohols provides 90,400 BTU’s per gallon in comparison to C2 ethanol at 75,500 BTU’s or C1 methanol at 56,500 BTU’s.
The oxygen content of the higher mixed alcohol blend is 33.6% and non-linear blending octanes rise above 130 for this synthetically produced GTL blend of alcohols produced in the same fashion which C1 methanol is catalytically synthesized via traditional GTL processes.
Thus 85% volumes of this mixed alcohol blend provide 76,840 BTU’s coupled with 15% volumes of gasoline providing 16,800 more BTU’s for a total of 93,640 BTU’s or 84% the BTU equivalent of 112,000 BTU neat gasoline. Again, the air/fuel ratio is properly adjusted by the FFV chip and about 16% more fuel volume is fed into the piston cylinders via the fuel injectors. Spark ignition timing is even further advanced (compared to M or E) to find the piston cylinder’s “sweet spot” for the most thorough combustion event. Race-car engine torque power is achieved, an even cleaner exhaust emission is realized and I’m assuming that this blend of mixed alcohols plus 15% gasoline volumes would provide about 93% of the fuel mileage range of gasoline.
I’m providing real-world yet back of the napkin comparisons herein. Please understand that I am NOT a FFV computer chip calibration expert yet I understand the differences and basic relationships between 50% oxygen content in Methanol at 56,500 BTU’s per gallon vs: 33% oxygen content within 75,500 BTU per gallon grain Ethanol and 33.6% oxygen concentrations contained in synthetic GTL higher mixed alcohols featuring 90,400 BTU’s gallon. I made a previous comment in this thread that IF a M-85 blended fuel were run through a E-85 FFV computer chip, the resulting air/fuel mixture would be lean. And that is because the FFV chip is sensing greater oxygen concentrations in the fuel and it “thinks” that 75,000 BTU Ethanol is providing this volume of oxygen, not 56,500 BTU Methanol. Making any sense here?
Ten years ago I provided FFV engineers at Ford Motor Company in Dearborn, Michigan, with a sample of C1-C5 higher mixed alcohols ending with C5 n-pentanol and another sample of C1-C8 higher mixed alcohols finishing with 8-carbon n-octanol. Both samples of higher mixed alcohols were neat fuel, anhydrous dried blends of synthetic alcohols and contained no gasoline nor other additives. FoMoCo’s FFV calibration engineers reported to me that both of these mixed alcohol blends pegged their FFV calibration meters at 100%. I asked them what did they mean here? Their response was that both of these blends of higher alcohols contained MORE BTU’s as a neat alcohol recipe by themselves than the BTU’s which were contained in 85% volumes of grain Ethanol with 15% volumes of stronger BTU gasoline. Then we all realized that “calibration” of the next generation FFV chips would be necessary to accurately adjust air/fuel volumes of a 20% stronger BTU blend of alcohols in comparison to neat Ethanol.
The spark advance function of the FFV chip was not nearly as far off. This function advances ignition spark timing until a predetonation ping is felt, then slightly retards the spark timing so that NO predetonation occurs. A third FFV sensor in the tailpipe actually ’sniffs’ the exhaust emissions and further fine-tunes the relationships between air/fuel ratios and spark ignition timing to produce an even better, more complete combustion event in the piston cylinder. This is what is being sought after as complete or nearly complete oxidation combustion in ICE’s provides the greatest engine torque power while netting out the cleanest emissions profile. This Win-Win is what a $35 FFV chip is working to accomplish!
Subsequently, I paid for the tests of a baseline blend of C1-C5 mixed alcohols to be combusted as a neat fuel in a brand new FFV equipped automobile at the world’s largest fuels, engine and emissions test lab located in San Antonio, Texas. Remember, that a E-85 FFV chip is calibrated for 85% volumes of 75,000 BTU ethanol and 15% volumes of 112,000 BTU gasoline. The tests which were recorded in this FFV system used pure C1-C5 mixed alcohols with absolutely NO gasoline volumes. The tests included engine torque as measured by dynamometers, actual driving tests by trained professionals and detailed emissions evaluations recording 85 different emission elements. In comparison, your annual smog-check on the family car only records the “big five” of emissions elements.
The total comparison here was pure mixed alcohols at a lowball baseline of C1-C5 against pure gasoline in a brand new FFV computer equipped Ford automobile. Every result was nearly perfect except for the emissions comparison between the neat alcohols and neat gasoline. The FFV chip was calibrated for E-85 and the baseline mixture of neat alcohols contained MORE BTU’s than the E-85 blend with gasoline would have contained. So the FFV auto was actually running a ‘richer mixture’ of mixed alcohols which was not properly adjusted for the absolute correct air/fuel ratio. The FFV chip did correctly calibrate neat gasoline into the same engine and adjusted it most properly. Keep in mind that a FFV chip will accurately adjust for the 5% and 10% ethanol volumes being sold across America. So even if your home area doesn’t host E-85 fuels at the local gas stations, do search for a FFV chip in the next new car or truck you may purchase as it will give you even better performance for the lower, EPA mandated ethanol volume blends on sale everywhere.
I’ve yet to come across a two or three-way programmable FFV chip but I suspect that something like this could be implemented within a year. Detroit is expected to be outputting FFV chips in about 50% of their new cars during these next two production years. Detroit is gearing up to copycat what has been “standard equipment” under the hoods of cars down in Brazil for the past 15 years or more. This really should not be such a big deal to incorporate alcohol tolerant gaskets and fuel lines (this HAS been done in the USA since about 1981) and implement a $35 FFV chip into the automobile’s electronic system.
If M-85 were to resurface into the marketplace (Methanex are you out there?) OR if significant volumes of the stronger BTU and stronger octane higher mixed alcohol were to be made available on the freeways – then it is quite possible that a 2-way or 3-way adjustable FFV chip would come next. Such internal programing to this chip would be relatively easy. I’ve listed the “basic differences” herein relative to oxygen concentrations amid differences in total BTU content of different alcohol recipes. Producing these different alcohols is another story all together.
And to your last question: Yes! As many motorists already realize, you can combust 100% neat ethyl alcohol through a E-85 FFV chip designed to incorporate a 15% mixture of gasoline in this same blend. In this case, the car will perform exceedingly well but the exhaust emission profile will showcase a slightly ‘leaner fuel blend.” The computer chip is being fooled once again as it was calibrated for 100% gasoline to be diluted up to 85% volumes with ethanol, not 100% volumes of ethanol. Car still runs fine though.
There are companies who today are selling after-market FFV chip kits to install on most makes of cars and light trucks. I have no personal experience with these after-market FFV kits. I do however have experience in combusting thousands of gallons of pure methanol, pure ethanol and pure higher mixed alcohols in older and newer cars and trucks where I have mechanically adjusted the relative air/fuel ratios and advanced spark ignition timing to 20 degrees advanced at 800 rpm idle and 48 degrees centrifugal spark advance at 3,000 rpm.
My own mechanics who helped me make such adjustments to spark advance kept shaking their heads. They never in their careers had advanced spark ignition so high. Yet the same mechanics had never tuned an Indy 500 race car engine either.
In cross-country driving of neat alcohols blends in autos NOT sold as FFV equipped — I’ve never once plugged a fuel filter nor had any fuel line, gasket or elastomer problem whatsoever. Instead, when combusting pure, neat alcohols I provide folks with a ‘biodegradability’ demonstration and pour a couple of gallons of distilled water into a 20 gallon fuel tank of alcohols. Yes, I can feel that I’ve watered down the BTU strength of my alcohol fuel – but when combusting neat alcohols, a little or a lot of water can be tolerated. What we don’t want to do is blend significant volumes of non-dry hydrous wet alcohols with hydrocarbon gasoline. This creates combustion problems and modern engines do NOT like 5% to 10% volumes of water co-blended and bound into gasoline via alcohols.
I can understand that outboard motorboat enthusiasts have had ethanol/gasoline blends dissolving some of the 10 and 20 and 30 yr. old hydrocarbon-based vanish, resins, rust and gunk which accumulates in watercraft stored for decades in a salty, marine environments. To them I can only suggest that they replace aging, rusted and corroded fuel tanks, run some new off-the-shelf rubber or metal fuel lines and let these alcohol/gasoline blends start cleaning their motorboat engines from the inside out as all alcohols are natural engine decarbonizers. I’ve expensively mapped the metal wear differences between C1 Methanol and C2 Ethanol as neat fuels and do not consider metal wear nor elastomer/gaskets/fuel lines/filters to be of any significant problem whatsoever.
Disinformation continues to abound, just like the naysayers on this blog and other places are attempting to freak out or scare citizens about methanol’s toxicity. I don’t drink gasoline nor diesel. I don’t drink blue windshield washer fluid. I would NOT voluntarily consume any fuel-grade alcohol either. Nor would I consume Drano, toilet bowl cleaners or dishwasher or laundry soaps. I got a taste of bar soap once when I was a child, it was wielded by my Mother who was upset with some school-yard profanity I had uttered. That memory still lingers after 50 years… Anyway, let’s get real and get on with new business opportunities at hand while the world turns and the Gulf oil still gushes.
Please understand that Methanol and Ethanol are only ONE CARBON atom different in their molecular formulas. Yet the processes to produce them and the carbon feedstocks thus converted PLUS the inherent financial profits generated are as different as night and day.
Mark Radosevich
mark at carbonbridge dot net
Walt said:
“Americans have felt this powerful combination punch before:
If this happens, perhaps methanol at $1.00 per gallon will get a second look as a long-term fuel rather than a chemical in America? M85 could be a solution to compete with $4.00 gasoline prices.
•••••••••••
Walt: You are starting to get a vision on why methanol, the simplest single-carbon alcohol has been purposefully labeled as a chemical and kept out of automotive fuel tanks for the past 100 years. At one-half the energy density of gasoline, it takes 2x the volume of methanol to travel the same distance as refined petroleum fuel oils. BUT, since methanol is so cheap to produce, paying for twice its volumes in comparison to gasoline or diesel will still provide a very significant savings to the motorist.
And, there are other advantages too. Like emitting a biodegradable exhaust emission. And having a safer fuel at ambient temps and pressures in your fuel tank while zooming at 75 mpg down the freeway. And when properly adjusted for air/fuel ratios and spark ignition, fuel alcohols typically provide 35% more engine torque. (Why did Indy 500 racers combust single-carbon methanol as neat, substitute fuel for 37 years before politically switching to two-carbon ethanol just a few years ago?) And rather importantly, building out new local or regional methanol economies means not having to import crude oils from around the globe with all of those unintended consequences of world wars, shipping, pirating and always leakage of the non-biodegradable oil product into land masses or oceans. And finally, producing the simple oxygenated methanol or a blend of synthetic higher alcohols from ANY waste carbon source will provide equity owners with profits which dwarf those being produced from imported fossils.
Benefits like these would certainly spur decentralization among many new equity owners including municipalities who could fund such new community economic developments via citizen equity participation through bonding mechanisms.
Thus there is physically is NO reason to plant any agri-biomass product, fertilize it, water and weed it and then annually harvest it simply for its intrinsic carbon content. My suggestion for farmers is to plant and harvest the cleanest of foodstuffs including meats and eggs and therein charge a premium price for organic varieties of staple foods.
Disinformation and misunderstandings abound concerning a broad range of new biofuel technologies. The general consensus is that something needs to be planted and harvested to then be somehow converted into a new biofuel alternative. Not so! Look no further than the current investor excitement over green pond scum (algae) and genetically modified biobugs like E-coli to see where development money is currently focused. This is happening because people and biofuels digest editors alike simply don’t understand the basics of steam-driven thermal technology which can cleanly convert waste carbon on 24×7 continuos basis vs: anything which is batch fermented with genetically-modified biobugs, acidic enzymes and yeasts.
Perhaps citizens and governments should first look no further than municipal daily waste streams such as garbage and sewer sludge for a source of cheap, available and renewable carbon building blocks. Ground tires, petroleum coke, bottoms coal of any rank, stranded or contaminated sources of CH4 methane natural gas plus CO2 greenhouse gas can all be used as basic carbon feedstocks. Should the alternative fuels offtake be cleaner, more expensive, float-on-water Fischer-Tropsch synthetic oils? Or should the desired and more profitable offtake be biodegradable, low-cost (bug & plant food) alcohols which can replace hydrocarbons via a $35 FFV chip? Actually, if the truth were to be known and understood, for the next 70 years – new volumes of profitable fuel alcohols should be seamlessly blended back into the present-day infrastructures of liquid petroleum and solid coal hydrocarbons.
The primary biomass carbon-source for clean conversion through 150 yr. old gasification front-end methodology is beetle-killed pine. Along the spine of the Rocky Mountains from Canada down into New Mexico are 5+ million acres of dead and dying pine trees which average 6,000 to 6,400 BTU’s per pound. Wyoming and Montana coal are in the 8,000 BTU/lb. range for comparison. Ground tires feature 15,000 BTU/lb. Sewer sludge (wet or dry) can range in the 6,000 to 8,200 BTU/lb range. Getting the bigger picture a little bit more?
Could the U.S. Renewable Fuels Standard which mandates new biofuels production with generous $1.01 per gallon tax credits really become considered as a biodegradable carbon-bridge to the world of hydrocarbon fuels? Or should the RFS be viewed somehow as a near-term and immediate replacement for petroleum? The peak oil graphs recently illustrated on RR’s own energy discussion blog pages depict crude oil’s volumentric demise beginning in the next 18 months. Such charts were produced via diligent research by the DOE’s Energy Information Administration with collusion by the Military Establishment.
So… Do we spin our wheels and continue to grow new sources of agricultural carbon for an annual harvest? Or should society and investors focus on other sources of carbon building blocks readily available, some with high tipping fees attached? Should we collectively employ technology which produces a float-on-water and non-biodegradable (tragically mislabeled) bio-oil? Or should we employ very similar and far less expensive steam-driven thermal catalytic technology to produce a water soluble, biodegradable, oil soluble and coal soluble bio-alcohol? You choose. And vote with your own dollars.
Mark Radosevich
p.s. I’ve previously tried to communicate such messages to public figures like President Obama, John Kerry & his wife, other political candidates then to spokespersons like Robt. Redford, Mr. CO2-Al Gore and others – but continually face walls of paid gatekeepers who cannot interpret what recycling CO2 greenhouse gas into bio-alcohols is all about. Same people would really struggle trying to interpret what “direct and partial oxidation of methane into methanol” is all about with your own firm’s patented technology Walt. Maybe we should publically inform them that American scientists can technically convert lemons into lemonade and that they should not worry about any of the simple, yet high pressure plumbing pipes and catalysts which produce these deliciously sweet and profitable recipes? Instead, let folks ponder what such new and decentralized energy industry might accomplish the near-term regarding self-sufficiency and methods of global economic recovery.
I am looking for someone to help me write a bookklet on blending
methanol and gasoline up to M15, M30 and M85 as well as what is
generally required to modify existing vehicals to operate on these
blended fuels. I want this to be written in a technical manual format,
and welcome anyone who would like to participate. You can contact me
through http://www.gastechno.com